Ping Kent alt.binaries.friends up and running

Why, Kent, you devil. Got us a place to post binaries. Wish it was
also a text group, but still, it's something.
-
Piper
Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed

Post by Doc Savage
Your new binary group is running on newsreader.com and should be on
Giganews in a day or two. Ask your newsvendor to add it.
You may need to send a booster in a few days. Chances are that
ChristinA or Anal Adam will rmgroup it. I know you said 99.99% of
newsadmins refuse to honour the rmgroup message, but more than half will
also refuse to add the group if there's an rmgroup message and no
booster - me included <grin> and it takes a really simple control
message to make 'em drop it again.
Here's the charter. Hope it isn't too restrictive, but it's the best
compromise/option I had of getting it past the anal retentive clowns at
alt.config.
No text 'chat' in the binary group is standard, but forgotten by most,
but it will keep the text group alive if it's used properly. Limits are
to stop idiots dumping their hard drives into the binary group. Decide
between you what constitutes 'adult' material and shove it in a faq.
Copyright exists on the charter text, and the original is lodged at
isc.org, but there's no reason why you can't put it on a website
(Geoshites is free and easy) provided to keep the copyright notice.
It's the groups baby now, so take care of it.
Doc
====================================================
alt.binaies.friends Binary group for alt.friends
Alt.binaries.friends will not be moderated.
Binary group for alt.friends. All filetypes are permitted, including
multimedia, video and sound files. A brief summary or description of
the binary may be included, along with any special handling instructions
which may be required for the filetype being posted.
alt.binaries.friends is not to be used as a chat group. Text messages
and responses to binary posts should be made to the text group. To
facilitate this, followups should be set to alt.friends. If you don't
know how to do this, ask somebody in the text group.
Binary posts should be limited to 15 articles per day. Those posting a
'string' of binaries should include an index to aid those on dial up and
slow newsfeeds to 'cherry pick', especially if the binaries are larger
than (say) 250Kb per article. The index file should not count towards
the daily binaries limit
'Adult' content is not prohibited, but should be actively discouraged

Doc Savage

2004-10-15 15:36:13 UTC

Post by Piper
Why, Kent, you devil. Got us a place to post binaries. Wish it was
also a text group, but still, it's something.

My name isn't Kent, and I wasn't asked. I also made a teensy-weensy
spelling mistake in the group line, but it's of little consequence for
the time being. I'll fix it later if it needs to be fixed. Until then,
you have something unique <grin>.

The reason I made it a binaries only group (that can be changed later
anyway) was to preserve this group for those who don't have a binary
newsfeed. If half of you beggar off over to the binary group, you're
going to leave a lot of friends behind.

From what I've read here, Kent seems capable of looking after the
boosters and doing whatever else is needed (like arranging crosspostings
with other binary groups to get traffic) but if you need serious help,
my email is in the copyright notice

Piper

2004-10-15 19:40:17 UTC

Post by Piper
Why, Kent, you devil. Got us a place to post binaries. Wish it was
also a text group, but still, it's something.

Yes, I knew you weren't Kent, but I did think he probably asked you.
Nice of you to do it.

Post by Doc Savage
The reason I made it a binaries only group (that can be changed later
anyway) was to preserve this group for those who don't have a binary
newsfeed. If half of you beggar off over to the binary group, you're
going to leave a lot of friends behind.

That's true. We have too little traffic here as it is.

Post by Doc Savage
From what I've read here, Kent seems capable of looking after the
boosters and doing whatever else is needed (like arranging crosspostings
with other binary groups to get traffic) but if you need serious help,
my email is in the copyright notice

-
Piper
Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed

Matthew

2004-10-15 20:57:15 UTC

I like this idea actually! And the fact that replies can be sent to
alt.friends (I'll have to figure out how to do that). The main thing I was
worried about is that it would decrease traffic to this group, but if it's
binaries only that won't be a problem. Thanks Doc!

Matthew

Kent Wills

2004-10-15 22:10:44 UTC

I heard a rumor that on Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:38:07 -0500, Piper

Post by Piper
Why, Kent, you devil. Got us a place to post binaries. Wish it was
also a text group, but still, it's something.

Wasn't me. It was some Doc Savage guy. I don't recognize the
nym, so I'm at a loss.
I'm not complaining, mind you :)

Kent

--
Age and knowledge don't always come together. Sometimes you just get
the age...

Cranky Cat

2004-10-15 15:28:47 UTC

This is what I get when I try to set up newsreader.com
480 Authentication required
Nan

Doc Savage

2004-10-15 16:51:17 UTC

Post by Cranky Cat
This is what I get when I try to set up newsreader.com
480 Authentication required
Nan

http://www.newsreader.com/freedemo.htm

Click on the link, then follow the on-screen free demonstration
instructions.

Type the group name in the search box and it will take you there. You
can 'see' the binary group, but the demo won't let you post or download
anything there.

send an email to ***@supernews.com and ask them to add the binary
group to their list, or go to the supernews homepage and see if there's
a support link there

Bigbazza

2004-10-15 21:33:44 UTC

Post by Cranky Cat
This is what I get when I try to set up newsreader.com
480 Authentication required
Nan

(Snipped).....

Nan....You need to 'Subscribe' to newsreader.com to get 'Authentication
!.......I briefly looked in at newsreader.co. last night...I think it
'costs' about $9.95 month..You can get a 24 hour Trial ....More than that ,
I do not understand !..

Bigbazza(Barry)..Oz

Matthew

2004-10-15 21:28:49 UTC

Is newsreader.com a pay only service? Is there any way I can request my
current newsgroup provider to add alt.binaries.friends?

Matthew

Cranky Cat

2004-10-15 21:42:18 UTC

If your current newsgroup provider has binary groups, you simply contact
them by
email or phone and request they add it. I've done that before. Depending on
your
provider, it can be a lengthy wait. Took me 3 months and a crap load of
emails
to get them to add a group. Hope that doesn't discourage you. I expect
that's what I'll have to do
in this case.
Nan

Post by Matthew
Is newsreader.com a pay only service? Is there any way I can request my
current newsgroup provider to add alt.binaries.friends?
Matthew

Kent Wills

2004-10-15 22:21:21 UTC

I heard a rumor that on Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:28:49 -0400, "Matthew"

Post by Matthew
Is newsreader.com a pay only service? Is there any way I can request my
current newsgroup provider to add alt.binaries.friends?

There is a way to ask supernews, your provider according to your
headers, to spool the group. Visit
http://www.supernews.com/faq.html#17 for information or write to
***@supernews.com and request it. According to the site, you can
also post a new group request in the newsgroup 'supernews.support'.
I'm going to ask my ISP to offer the group.

Kent

--
When the world ends, there'll be no more air.
That's why it's important to pollute the air now. Before it's too
late. :)

Matthew

2004-10-16 04:13:30 UTC

Post by Kent Wills
There is a way to ask supernews, your provider according to your
headers, to spool the group. Visit
http://www.supernews.com/faq.html#17 for information or write to
also post a new group request in the newsgroup 'supernews.support'.
I'm going to ask my ISP to offer the group.
Kent

Our provider is Localnet.com News 1, though after looking at the header
(which I never do), apparently they just work through supernews? I dunno.
I e-mailed localnet specifically, they weren't much help, though I suppose I
was asking the wrong people in the first place. I'll contact supernews....

Matthew

Matthew

2004-10-16 04:19:28 UTC

Post by Matthew
Our provider is Localnet.com News 1, though after looking at the header
(which I never do), apparently they just work through supernews? I dunno.
I e-mailed localnet specifically, they weren't much help, though I suppose
I was asking the wrong people in the first place. I'll contact
supernews....
Matthew

I submitted the request at supernews.support...I'll have to wait and see
what the moderator says.

Others have requested newsgroups, receiving this message:

"Sorry. There isn't a control message for alt.creative.writing. One
will need to be properly archived at ftp.isc.org before we can add the
group. The control message ensures proper alt.* group creation. See
previous posts in this group for more details on how to create and
post a control message. Once the control message is properly
archived, please resubmit your request."

I'm assuming that was taken care of by the charter that Doc created?

Matthew

Matthew

2004-10-16 04:49:21 UTC

Post by Matthew
Our provider is Localnet.com News 1, though after looking at the header
(which I never do), apparently they just work through supernews? I
dunno. I e-mailed localnet specifically, they weren't much help, though I
suppose I was asking the wrong people in the first place. I'll contact
supernews....
Matthew

I submitted the request at supernews.support...I'll have to wait and see
what the moderator says.
"Sorry. There isn't a control message for alt.creative.writing. One
will need to be properly archived at ftp.isc.org before we can add the
group. The control message ensures proper alt.* group creation. See
previous posts in this group for more details on how to create and
post a control message. Once the control message is properly
archived, please resubmit your request."
I'm assuming that was taken care of by the charter that Doc created?
Matthew

N/M about the control message, I figured out what it is. How do you go
about properly posting one?

Matthew

2004-10-16 04:57:58 UTC

Post by Matthew
Our provider is Localnet.com News 1, though after looking at the header
(which I never do), apparently they just work through supernews? I
dunno. I e-mailed localnet specifically, they weren't much help, though
I suppose I was asking the wrong people in the first place. I'll
contact supernews....
Matthew

N/M about the control message, I figured out what it is. How do you go
about properly posting one?

Okay, so I've now thoroughly made an ass of myself by asking so many
questions and then just doing the research myself, but here are some useful
links I found:

http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/good-newgroup.html

http://usenet.klaas.ca/groupsearch/faq.html

Matthew

Doc Savage

2004-10-16 09:57:06 UTC

Post by Matthew
Our provider is Localnet.com News 1, though after looking at the
header (which I never do), apparently they just work through
supernews? I dunno. I e-mailed localnet specifically, they weren't
much help, though I suppose I was asking the wrong people in the
first place. I'll contact supernews....
Matthew

I submitted the request at supernews.support...I'll have to wait and
see what the moderator says.
"Sorry. There isn't a control message for alt.creative.writing.
One will need to be properly archived at ftp.isc.org before we can
add the group. The control message ensures proper alt.* group
creation. See previous posts in this group for more details on how
to create and post a control message. Once the control message is
properly archived, please resubmit your request."
I'm assuming that was taken care of by the charter that Doc created?
Matthew

N/M about the control message, I figured out what it is. How do you
go about properly posting one?

Okay, so I've now thoroughly made an ass of myself by asking so many
questions and then just doing the research myself, but here are some
http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/good-newgroup.html
http://usenet.klaas.ca/groupsearch/faq.html
Matthew

The only dumb question is the one you don't ask....

The absolute rules are contained in RFC1036 and another 'update'
generally known as "Son of 1036". You may remember me posting details
about RFC's 1036 and 2289 elsewhere.

You don't need a charter to create a group, but you are less likely to
face future problems if the charter is included with the original
control message. If there is no charter, it is posssible for some
uunscrupilous person to retrocharter the group with one of his own. The
first charter posted is generally accepted as the definitive one.

You can't (easily) send a control message with Outlook Explodes. There
are ways, but you need to hack the programme to make it add a "Control"
line and an "Approved" line in the headers. It isn't worth the effort
when Xnews does it for free. If you read 1036 et seq carefully you can
do almost anything - even with Ohdear Expires, but you're likely to end
up with an angry admin on your tail.

You mentioned alt.creative.writing. There is no control message for it
at ISC.org and the entry for that group appears to be 'blackholed'.
It's a ghost group. Somebody created the group with a corrupt control
message, prolly in UNIX, it was picked up by a few servers which auto-
add, but it doesn't exist. I know from experience that I *can't* fix
it. This group appears to be the same. Created and then blackholed.
It can't be fixed.

Commercial servers carrying creative.writing include Altopia, Easynews,
Individual.net, meganews.com, sharedsecrets,newsreader.com,
newshosting,shaw (canada), uncensored news and giganews.

Matthew

2004-10-17 02:34:03 UTC

Post by Doc Savage
The only dumb question is the one you don't ask....
The absolute rules are contained in RFC1036 and another 'update'
generally known as "Son of 1036". You may remember me posting details
about RFC's 1036 and 2289 elsewhere.
You don't need a charter to create a group, but you are less likely to
face future problems if the charter is included with the original
control message. If there is no charter, it is posssible for some
uunscrupilous person to retrocharter the group with one of his own. The
first charter posted is generally accepted as the definitive one.
You can't (easily) send a control message with Outlook Explodes. There
are ways, but you need to hack the programme to make it add a "Control"
line and an "Approved" line in the headers. It isn't worth the effort
when Xnews does it for free. If you read 1036 et seq carefully you can
do almost anything - even with Ohdear Expires, but you're likely to end
up with an angry admin on your tail.
You mentioned alt.creative.writing. There is no control message for it
at ISC.org and the entry for that group appears to be 'blackholed'.
It's a ghost group. Somebody created the group with a corrupt control
message, prolly in UNIX, it was picked up by a few servers which auto-
add, but it doesn't exist. I know from experience that I *can't* fix
it. This group appears to be the same. Created and then blackholed.
It can't be fixed.
Commercial servers carrying creative.writing include Altopia, Easynews,
Individual.net, meganews.com, sharedsecrets,newsreader.com,
newshosting,shaw (canada), uncensored news and giganews.

Thanks for the info Doc. I took a look in alt.config last night, I
certainly wouldn't want to defend creating a newsgroup in there!

Matthew

Kent Wills

2004-10-15 22:15:57 UTC

I heard a rumor that on Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:58:53 -0500, Doc Savage

Post by Doc Savage
Your new binary group is running on newsreader.com and should be on
Giganews in a day or two. Ask your newsvendor to add it.

Thank you. Um... do I know you? And if I do, by what nym and
froup?

Post by Doc Savage
You may need to send a booster in a few days. Chances are that
ChristinA or Anal Adam will rmgroup it. I know you said 99.99% of

You can almost count on them trying. A booster will help.

Kent

--
When the world ends, there'll be no more air.
That's why it's important to pollute the air now. Before it's too
late. :)

Matthew

2004-10-16 04:21:46 UTC

Post by Kent Wills
I heard a rumor that on Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:58:53 -0500, Doc Savage

Post by Doc Savage
Your new binary group is running on newsreader.com and should be on
Giganews in a day or two. Ask your newsvendor to add it.

Thank you. Um... do I know you? And if I do, by what nym and
froup?

Doc Savage posts at alt.binaries.unoffical.global.chat. His father and
Sharon (Stinkweed) are the ones that created that group.

Post by Kent Wills

Post by Doc Savage
You may need to send a booster in a few days. Chances are that
ChristinA or Anal Adam will rmgroup it. I know you said 99.99% of

You can almost count on them trying. A booster will help.
Kent

For the stupid, what is a booster? And what does it mean to rmgroup it?
I'm sorry for the silly questions, but I haven't been involved with usenet
for very long, and even though I'm pretty savvy on computers I'm still a bit
lost with all of this.

Matthew

Doc Savage

2004-10-16 13:28:03 UTC

Post by Kent Wills
I heard a rumor that on Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:58:53 -0500, Doc Savage

Post by Doc Savage
Your new binary group is running on newsreader.com and should be on
Giganews in a day or two. Ask your newsvendor to add it.

Thank you. Um... do I know you? And if I do, by what nym and
froup?

Doc Savage posts at alt.binaries.unoffical.global.chat. His father
and Sharon (Stinkweed) are the ones that created that group.

This is untrue, and truth is important to me and to my late Fathers good
name. Sharon found the group standing derelict in 2002 and nothing
more. It was created by ***@globalnet.co.uk on Thu Jul 2 16:51:22
1998 as an unofficial binary group for a localhost globalnet text chat
group (in the same way a.b.friends partners this text group), and it was
officially canceled some days later.

Sharon 'took it over' and 'Savage' fended off the morons, I sent various
'spoofed UNIX control messages' directly to servers and had the group
added to three European newsfeeds and to various US newsfeeds, including
prodigy, core.com, and altopia so that others could reach the group
without it being carried globally.

It makes no difference who found global or who has been there the
longest, the fact is that nobody owns it, nobody can moderate it, and
anybody can post there, no invitation required.

Post by Kent Wills

Post by Doc Savage
You may need to send a booster in a few days. Chances are that
ChristinA or Anal Adam will rmgroup it. I know you said 99.99% of

You can almost count on them trying. A booster will help.
Kent

For the stupid, what is a booster? And what does it mean to rmgroup
it? I'm sorry for the silly questions, but I haven't been involved
with usenet for very long, and even though I'm pretty savvy on
computers I'm still a bit lost with all of this.
Matthew

A booster is a repeat "newgroup" control message [format is Control:
newgroup <groupname> which has the word *booster* appended to the
message body on the line following the group line. Anyone can send a
booster and no permission or vote is needed. Basically, the booster is
a reminder for newsadmins who may have missed the original newgroup
message. It's also a good way to seriously annoy newsadmins if you do
it wrong or too often.

I explained rmgroup control messages elsewhere and was accused of all
sorts of bad things which cost me my position within the Synagogue, but
here it is again.

An rmgroup is a control message which technically cancels the
'newgroup' control message used to create a newsgroup. Normally rmgroup
control messages are ignored by everybody and their auntie, since these
can be forged by anybody. What is less often understood or confused
with the last sentence is that newsadmins can and will frequently refuse
to carry a group which is rmgrouped, or has a problem with the original
control message. The modern reasoning is that peering a cancelled group
creates problems and can slow the newsfeed if the upstream peer won't
carry the group. A more valid reason is that usenet takes up bandwidth,
which costs buckets of money. If a newsadmin can save a penny by not
carrying or dropping a group, he will.

Historically, there are exceptions to the rmgroup argument. Before
31/12/99 rmgroup control messages (and cmsg cancel control messages aka
'spamcancels', 'charter cancels' etc) in the alt.* hierarchy were
generally accepted by all but a few servers. Receipt of the rmgroup
control message whether it was 'official' or malicious effectively
cancelled the group and it was not picked up or it was dropped by isp
based newsfeeds and shared services newsfeeds. Some newsadmins had
already decided not to honour any control messages due to the numbers of
malicious control messages being sent by covert groups such as "The
Knights of Snuh" and "Hipcrime" (aka Crimehip). They picked up the
canceled group, and the group survived in the way this group,
creative.writing and global have survived.

From 1/1/00 (and earlier, from the software trials), if the control
message contains a PGP keycode (actually a one time only password) which
complies exactly with the terms described in RFC2289, it *should* be
considered to be authentic, and *should* be acted upon. The word
'should' is a recommendation. It means should do, not 'must do' but
most newsadmins treat it as a 'must do' to make their lives easier. The
list is defined by Brian Edmonds on one of the webpages you have already
found.

The rules for the 'Big8' hierarchies (those which do not begin with alt
such as soc, rec and comp) are different, and should not be confused
with alt, or nation groups, such as han.* fr.* nl.* and so on. The
rules for the free.* hierarchy are different again.

References: RFC 2289 RFC 1036 and "Son of RFC 1036" Google (easier) or
refer to the archive at www.faqs.org/

Doc

--
in a previous [wayward] student life

"All your base are belong to us" <grin>

Kent Wills

2004-10-16 20:53:49 UTC

I heard a rumor that on Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:28:03 -0500, Doc Savage

Post by Doc Savage
Sharon 'took it over' and 'Savage' fended off the morons, I sent various
'spoofed UNIX control messages' directly to servers and had the group
added to three European newsfeeds and to various US newsfeeds, including
prodigy, core.com, and altopia so that others could reach the group
without it being carried globally.

I should use my ISP's server then. My ISP uses Prodigy's NNTP.

Kent

--
Born once - Die twice. Born twice - Die only once. Your choice...
Sig "borrowed" from Joe.

Matthew

2004-10-17 02:40:19 UTC

Post by Matthew
For the stupid, what is a booster? And what does it mean to rmgroup
it? I'm sorry for the silly questions, but I haven't been involved
with usenet for very long, and even though I'm pretty savvy on
computers I'm still a bit lost with all of this.
Matthew

newgroup <groupname> which has the word *booster* appended to the
message body on the line following the group line. Anyone can send a
booster and no permission or vote is needed. Basically, the booster is
a reminder for newsadmins who may have missed the original newgroup
message. It's also a good way to seriously annoy newsadmins if you do
it wrong or too often.
I explained rmgroup control messages elsewhere and was accused of all
sorts of bad things which cost me my position within the Synagogue, but
here it is again.
An rmgroup is a control message which technically cancels the
'newgroup' control message used to create a newsgroup. Normally rmgroup
control messages are ignored by everybody and their auntie, since these
can be forged by anybody. What is less often understood or confused
with the last sentence is that newsadmins can and will frequently refuse
to carry a group which is rmgrouped, or has a problem with the original
control message. The modern reasoning is that peering a cancelled group
creates problems and can slow the newsfeed if the upstream peer won't
carry the group. A more valid reason is that usenet takes up bandwidth,
which costs buckets of money. If a newsadmin can save a penny by not
carrying or dropping a group, he will.
Historically, there are exceptions to the rmgroup argument. Before
31/12/99 rmgroup control messages (and cmsg cancel control messages aka
'spamcancels', 'charter cancels' etc) in the alt.* hierarchy were
generally accepted by all but a few servers. Receipt of the rmgroup
control message whether it was 'official' or malicious effectively
cancelled the group and it was not picked up or it was dropped by isp
based newsfeeds and shared services newsfeeds. Some newsadmins had
already decided not to honour any control messages due to the numbers of
malicious control messages being sent by covert groups such as "The
Knights of Snuh" and "Hipcrime" (aka Crimehip). They picked up the
canceled group, and the group survived in the way this group,
creative.writing and global have survived.
From 1/1/00 (and earlier, from the software trials), if the control
message contains a PGP keycode (actually a one time only password) which
complies exactly with the terms described in RFC2289, it *should* be
considered to be authentic, and *should* be acted upon. The word
'should' is a recommendation. It means should do, not 'must do' but
most newsadmins treat it as a 'must do' to make their lives easier. The
list is defined by Brian Edmonds on one of the webpages you have already
found.
The rules for the 'Big8' hierarchies (those which do not begin with alt
such as soc, rec and comp) are different, and should not be confused
with alt, or nation groups, such as han.* fr.* nl.* and so on. The
rules for the free.* hierarchy are different again.
References: RFC 2289 RFC 1036 and "Son of RFC 1036" Google (easier) or
refer to the archive at www.faqs.org/
Doc

I didn't appreciate how complicated it could be to create a newsgroup,
especially when there's so many anal retentive people out there willing to
send a rmgroup control message because they weren't consulted about the
group being created (or didn't like the proposition they heard).

Matthew

Doc Savage

2004-10-17 12:17:16 UTC

newgroup <groupname> which has the word *booster* appended to the
message body on the line following the group line. Anyone can send a
booster and no permission or vote is needed. Basically, the booster
is a reminder for newsadmins who may have missed the original
newgroup message. It's also a good way to seriously annoy newsadmins
if you do it wrong or too often.
I explained rmgroup control messages elsewhere and was accused of all
sorts of bad things which cost me my position within the Synagogue,
but here it is again.
An rmgroup is a control message which technically cancels the
'newgroup' control message used to create a newsgroup. Normally
rmgroup control messages are ignored by everybody and their auntie,
since these can be forged by anybody. What is less often understood
or confused with the last sentence is that newsadmins can and will
frequently refuse to carry a group which is rmgrouped, or has a
problem with the original control message. The modern reasoning is
that peering a cancelled group creates problems and can slow the
newsfeed if the upstream peer won't carry the group. A more valid
reason is that usenet takes up bandwidth, which costs buckets of
money. If a newsadmin can save a penny by not carrying or dropping a
group, he will.
Historically, there are exceptions to the rmgroup argument. Before
31/12/99 rmgroup control messages (and cmsg cancel control messages
aka 'spamcancels', 'charter cancels' etc) in the alt.* hierarchy were
generally accepted by all but a few servers. Receipt of the rmgroup
control message whether it was 'official' or malicious effectively
cancelled the group and it was not picked up or it was dropped by isp
based newsfeeds and shared services newsfeeds. Some newsadmins had
already decided not to honour any control messages due to the numbers
of malicious control messages being sent by covert groups such as
"The Knights of Snuh" and "Hipcrime" (aka Crimehip). They picked up
the canceled group, and the group survived in the way this group,
creative.writing and global have survived.
From 1/1/00 (and earlier, from the software trials), if the control
message contains a PGP keycode (actually a one time only password)
which complies exactly with the terms described in RFC2289, it
*should* be considered to be authentic, and *should* be acted upon.
The word 'should' is a recommendation. It means should do, not 'must
do' but most newsadmins treat it as a 'must do' to make their lives
easier. The list is defined by Brian Edmonds on one of the webpages
you have already found.
The rules for the 'Big8' hierarchies (those which do not begin with
alt such as soc, rec and comp) are different, and should not be
confused with alt, or nation groups, such as han.* fr.* nl.* and so
on. The rules for the free.* hierarchy are different again.
References: RFC 2289 RFC 1036 and "Son of RFC 1036" Google (easier)
or refer to the archive at www.faqs.org/
Doc

I didn't appreciate how complicated it could be to create a newsgroup,
especially when there's so many anal retentive people out there
willing to send a rmgroup control message because they weren't
consulted about the group being created (or didn't like the
proposition they heard).
Matthew

It's actually quite straightforward, and it's easy to get around some
rules, provided you dot all the other i's and cross all the other
t's....

There was little or no 'justification' for creating a binary friends
group and the amount of traffic and some comments here would prove that.
The creatist cretins would have proved there were other binary groups
you could use, alt.binaries.chatter is one, alt.binaries.pictures.scenic
is the place for landscapes, a.b.p.animals will take your pet photos,
abp.automobiles for you car show photographs. There's even a specific
binary group where the ladies can post pics of their crosstitch samplers
and quilts, or where the guys (I'm being sexist<grin>) can post pics of
their whittling and fretwork.

Creating the group was the easy part. Keeping it and making lots of
servers carry it is something else entirely. The two most commonly used
tricks are;

1] Put a message in your signature saying "Please ask your server to
carry alt.binaries.friends" then go forth and show it to the world.

2] Crosspost pictures which you normally post elsewhere to a.b.f. and
post a *lot* of pictures without flooding the other group - to a limit
of 15 pics per day, which is the present chartered limit for abf.

If you want this number changed at a later date, I'll discuss the merits
and disadvantages of doing that with you, but it's way too soon to do
that now. 10 people posting 15 per day is 150 pics. Over 10 days,
that's 1,500 pics. Enough to start the wheels turning, and more than
enough to keep the dial-up users frustratedly happy, just don't fall
into the trap of using the group for chattering.

Meanwhile, I'll do some checkgroup list trading between my servers and
my upstreams and see if I can fire off a few 'addgroup' control messages
and see if I can lubricate whatever needs lubricating.

Matthew

2004-10-18 02:22:04 UTC

Post by Doc Savage
It's actually quite straightforward, and it's easy to get around some
rules, provided you dot all the other i's and cross all the other
t's....
There was little or no 'justification' for creating a binary friends
group and the amount of traffic and some comments here would prove that.
The creatist cretins would have proved there were other binary groups
you could use, alt.binaries.chatter is one, alt.binaries.pictures.scenic
is the place for landscapes, a.b.p.animals will take your pet photos,
abp.automobiles for you car show photographs. There's even a specific
binary group where the ladies can post pics of their crosstitch samplers
and quilts, or where the guys (I'm being sexist<grin>) can post pics of
their whittling and fretwork.
Creating the group was the easy part. Keeping it and making lots of
servers carry it is something else entirely. The two most commonly used
tricks are;
1] Put a message in your signature saying "Please ask your server to
carry alt.binaries.friends" then go forth and show it to the world.
2] Crosspost pictures which you normally post elsewhere to a.b.f. and
post a *lot* of pictures without flooding the other group - to a limit
of 15 pics per day, which is the present chartered limit for abf.
If you want this number changed at a later date, I'll discuss the merits
and disadvantages of doing that with you, but it's way too soon to do
that now. 10 people posting 15 per day is 150 pics. Over 10 days,
that's 1,500 pics. Enough to start the wheels turning, and more than
enough to keep the dial-up users frustratedly happy, just don't fall
into the trap of using the group for chattering.
Meanwhile, I'll do some checkgroup list trading between my servers and
my upstreams and see if I can fire off a few 'addgroup' control messages
and see if I can lubricate whatever needs lubricating.

Cool beans.

Matthew

Doc Savage

2004-10-16 10:17:57 UTC

Post by Kent Wills
I heard a rumor that on Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:58:53 -0500, Doc Savage

Post by Doc Savage
Your new binary group is running on newsreader.com and should be on
Giganews in a day or two. Ask your newsvendor to add it.

Thank you. Um... do I know you? And if I do, by what nym and
froup?

I don't recall ever crossing your path before Kent. One of my search
'bots picked up my nym in the group so I came in person to look, and saw
a couple of messages where people were pining for a binary group. I
liked what I saw in your posts, you seemed to have enough wherewithal to
follow up and take care of things, so I fired off a control message.
Call it an early gift for Ramadan, Chanukah or christmas, whichever you
prefer. It's just a simple mitzvot (Hebrew = favour, good deed).

Kent Wills

2004-10-16 20:57:15 UTC

I heard a rumor that on Sat, 16 Oct 2004 05:17:57 -0500, Doc Savage

Post by Doc Savage
I don't recall ever crossing your path before Kent. One of my search
'bots picked up my nym in the group so I came in person to look, and saw
a couple of messages where people were pining for a binary group. I

Ah... Mystery solved :)

Post by Doc Savage
liked what I saw in your posts, you seemed to have enough wherewithal to
follow up and take care of things, so I fired off a control message.

Saved me having to add the control and approved lines to Agent.

Post by Doc Savage
Call it an early gift for Ramadan, Chanukah or christmas, whichever you
prefer. It's just a simple mitzvot (Hebrew = favour, good deed).

I'm Christian, so I'll accept the early Christmas gift. And
thanks for the translation. That saved me from having to ask Rabbi
Bill, a neighbor of mine, what it means :)

Kent

--
If you have a bad cough, take a large dose of laxatives, then you will
be afraid to cough.

Piper

2004-10-15 23:08:16 UTC

Post by Doc Savage
Your new binary group is running on newsreader.com and should be on
Giganews in a day or two. Ask your newsvendor to add it.

What is Giganews? I can't get newsreader.com.

-
Piper
Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed

Kent Wills

2004-10-16 01:44:13 UTC

I heard a rumor that on Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:08:16 -0500, Piper

Post by Doc Savage
Your new binary group is running on newsreader.com and should be on
Giganews in a day or two. Ask your newsvendor to add it.

What is Giganews? I can't get newsreader.com.

These are NNTP servers. You and I use news.Individual.net to
access Usenet. Giga and newsreader do the same thing, but for a fee.
The plus is that each offers binary groups, whereas the German server
does not.
My ISP server carries binaries, so getting to
alt.binaries.friends won't be a problem for me, once it's added.

Kent

--
http://www.petsovernight.com
Delivering little bundles of love,
in a box, directly to your door.

Piper

2004-10-16 02:07:28 UTC

Post by Kent Wills
I heard a rumor that on Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:08:16 -0500, Piper

Post by Doc Savage
Your new binary group is running on newsreader.com and should be on
Giganews in a day or two. Ask your newsvendor to add it.

What is Giganews? I can't get newsreader.com.

Guess I'm the only one not able to use it then. :o(

-
Piper
Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed

Kent Wills

2004-10-16 02:26:30 UTC

I heard a rumor that on Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:07:28 -0500, Piper

Post by Piper
Guess I'm the only one not able to use it then. :o(

I dunno. There *might* be a way... <eg>

Kent

--
Be really good to your family and friends. You never know
when you are going to need them to empty your bedpan.

Piper

2004-10-16 11:10:15 UTC

Post by Kent Wills
I heard a rumor that on Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:07:28 -0500, Piper

Post by Piper
Guess I'm the only one not able to use it then. :o(

I dunno. There *might* be a way... <eg>
Kent

Have replied via email on my attempts to do as you suggested. I
really appreciate your efforts, but it won't let me download groups
with the user name and password you gave me. :o)

I'll try a web based server and see.

-
Piper
Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed

Kent Wills

2004-10-16 20:42:32 UTC

I heard a rumor that on Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:10:15 -0500, Piper

Post by Piper
Have replied via email on my attempts to do as you suggested. I
really appreciate your efforts, but it won't let me download groups
with the user name and password you gave me. :o)
I'll try a web based server and see.

I'm still trying to figure out what I did wrong with the set up.
It is a mystery at this point. All I know is I make some mistake
somewhere, since the account is only good for about two months. UGH!

Kent

--
Be really good to your family and friends. You never know
when you are going to need them to empty your bedpan.

Piper

2004-10-16 23:16:12 UTC

Post by Kent Wills
I heard a rumor that on Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:10:15 -0500, Piper

Stop worrying about it!

-
Piper
Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed

Doc Savage

2004-10-16 12:59:13 UTC

Post by Kent Wills
I heard a rumor that on Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:07:28 -0500, Piper

Post by Piper
Guess I'm the only one not able to use it then. :o(

I dunno. There *might* be a way... <eg>
Kent

Sorry about you being 'bombarded' with questions Kent. I'll take some
of the specifically technical questions if you wish.

Piper

2004-10-16 14:08:20 UTC

Post by Doc Savage
Sorry about you being 'bombarded' with questions Kent. I'll take some
of the specifically technical questions if you wish.

I, for one, appreciate what you've done, and all the explanations for
this and that.

My ISP is Direcway. It does not provide newsgroups. I get a few
through other servers on OE. alt.friend and a couple of other
groups, I get from the German server, which, I'm sure you know, does
not provide binary groups. I think I'm just going to have to skip
this one, because life is too busy to worry over it at the moment and
I simply don't have time.

-
Piper
Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed

Doc Savage

2004-10-16 17:42:09 UTC

Post by Doc Savage
Sorry about you being 'bombarded' with questions Kent. I'll take some
of the specifically technical questions if you wish.

I, for one, appreciate what you've done, and all the explanations for
this and that.
My ISP is Direcway. It does not provide newsgroups. I get a few
through other servers on OE. alt.friend and a couple of other
groups, I get from the German server, which, I'm sure you know, does
not provide binary groups. I think I'm just going to have to skip
this one, because life is too busy to worry over it at the moment and
I simply don't have time.

Hi,

I have lots of time these days. I'm a 'career student'and I'm also a
Rabbi with no duties. I do lecture and give public and Club talks in my
senior subjects. I only 'work' about 20 hrs per week and study even
less, but I'm at an early stage (just finished week 1<grin>) in my new
subjects (OT Hebrew and Engineering Science) for my 9th and 10th
degrees.

I never mind giving advice or help when the request is sincere, and if I
don't have an answer or can't find one, I'm not too ashamed to admit it
and let somebody else fill the gaps in my knowledge. Knowledge is for
sharing, and usenet is for sharing knowledge, so the two go hand in hand
with my lifestyle.

There are binary servers out there which cost from as litle as $3.95 to
set up with no further fees (www.teranews.com) and some which cost from
$5 or $6 per month with up to 10Gb of downloads per month or around $15
to $30 for up to 250Gb per month. Most have no limits on the amount you
can upload (post) and some will even disguise your true details.

There's a helpful and comprehensive list with prices at
http://www.exit109.com/~jeremy/news/providers/providers.html

hint: scroll down 3/4ths of the page and look at the resellers list
under NNTPServer. Just be sure the reseller supports binary groups
and/or alt.* hierarchy groups. Not all of them do and I haven't checked
too closely.

Cranky Cat

2004-10-16 18:32:13 UTC

Post by Doc Savage
There are binary servers out there which cost from as litle as $3.95 to
set up with no further fees (www.teranews.com) and some which cost from
$5 or $6 per month with up to 10Gb of downloads per month or around $15
to $30 for up to 250Gb per month. Most have no limits on the amount you
can upload (post) and some will even disguise your true details.
There's a helpful and comprehensive list with prices at
http://www.exit109.com/~jeremy/news/providers/providers.html
hint: scroll down 3/4ths of the page and look at the resellers list
under NNTPServer. Just be sure the reseller supports binary groups
and/or alt.* hierarchy groups. Not all of them do and I haven't checked
too closely.

Just wanted to say that it's nice of you to have gone to all the trouble you
have....but....
on behalf of the 'poorer' folk...not everyone can afford to pay extra costs
for a newsreader.
I get tired of being nickel and dimed to death. A few bucks here..a few
bucks there...after a while
those few bucks add up to a good deal of money which some of us just cannot
afford. I'm fortunate that
my ISP provides newsgroup service, because if they didn't, it's unlikely I
would be willing to pay extra
for it.
JMHO
Nan

Piper

2004-10-16 20:01:03 UTC

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:32:13 -0400, "Cranky Cat"

Post by Cranky Cat

I'm not going to pay for it either. I could afford it but it's the
principle of the thing to me. Why does one server charge and others
don't? If we can't find a free one that everyone can access to host
our group on, then so be it, but you won't find me there.

-
Piper
Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed

Doc Savage

2004-10-16 20:39:30 UTC

Post by Piper
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:32:13 -0400, "Cranky Cat"

Post by Cranky Cat

Post by Doc Savage
There are binary servers out there which cost from as litle as $3.95
to set up with no further fees (www.teranews.com) and some which
cost from $5 or $6 per month with up to 10Gb of downloads per month
or around $15 to $30 for up to 250Gb per month. Most have no limits
on the amount you can upload (post) and some will even disguise your
true details.
There's a helpful and comprehensive list with prices at
http://www.exit109.com/~jeremy/news/providers/providers.html
hint: scroll down 3/4ths of the page and look at the resellers list
under NNTPServer. Just be sure the reseller supports binary groups
and/or alt.* hierarchy groups. Not all of them do and I haven't
checked too closely.

Just wanted to say that it's nice of you to have gone to all the
trouble you have....but....
on behalf of the 'poorer' folk...not everyone can afford to pay extra
costs for a newsreader.
I get tired of being nickel and dimed to death. A few bucks here..a
few bucks there...after a while
those few bucks add up to a good deal of money which some of us just
cannot afford. I'm fortunate that
my ISP provides newsgroup service, because if they didn't, it's
unlikely I would be willing to pay extra
for it.
JMHO
Nan

The long and the short of it is that news service providers are there to
make money, and the bandwidth they need to gather the 2-2.5 terabytes of
news every day and distribute that to their clients costs rather more
than the proverbial arm and a leg.

In usenet, you get what you pay for. Cheap servers splash adverts all
over the place. You see them advertising in the sig files of posts all
over usenet. I really do detest spam and this kind of client side
'spamvertising', but sometimes, that's the only way that some low waged
and retired people can afford to 'get into' usenet. I don't say
anything these days, I just snip the spamvertising from any reply I may
make to their posts and leave it at that.

Mind you, usenet was not designed with binaries in mind. It was, and
probably always should have remained a text based media. I think
congratulations are in order for making your stand and sticking with it.
I'm on a diet and I've broken it six times since Monday Lol, I have no
will power.

Piper

2004-10-16 23:21:48 UTC

Post by Doc Savage
I'm on a diet and I've broken it six times since Monday Lol, I have no
will power.

LOL! Will power isn't all it's cracked up to be. I say that with
tongue in cheek. At least you started a diet. :)

-
Piper
Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed

Matthew

2004-10-17 02:44:33 UTC

Post by Doc Savage
I'm on a diet and I've broken it six times since Monday Lol, I have no
will power.

LOL! Will power isn't all it's cracked up to be. I say that with
tongue in cheek. At least you started a diet. :)

Having the will power to eat more than you desire can be tough too. Us
skinny folks don't necessarily have it easy.

Matthew

Matthew

2004-10-17 02:43:28 UTC

Post by Cranky Cat
Just wanted to say that it's nice of you to have gone to all the trouble you
have....but....
on behalf of the 'poorer' folk...not everyone can afford to pay extra costs
for a newsreader.
I get tired of being nickel and dimed to death. A few bucks here..a few
bucks there...after a while
those few bucks add up to a good deal of money which some of us just cannot
afford. I'm fortunate that
my ISP provides newsgroup service, because if they didn't, it's unlikely I
would be willing to pay extra
for it.
JMHO
Nan

In my opinion, that's why it's good to find an ISP that does provide
newsgroup service. Most do nowadays, along with many other quirks, for not
much cost (unless you're talking about going broadband).

Matthew

Kent Wills

2004-10-17 07:12:55 UTC

I heard a rumor that on Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:43:28 -0400, "Matthew"

Post by Matthew
In my opinion, that's why it's good to find an ISP that does provide
newsgroup service. Most do nowadays, along with many other quirks, for not
much cost (unless you're talking about going broadband).

Most ISPs are moving away from Usenet. They outsource this
service to NNTP servers like Supernews. Some, like direcway, don't
offer it in any form.
It's expensive to operate a server, and the majority of ISP
subscribers don't use Usenet. A perfect example is Lindsay, who has
posted an entire ONE Usenet article during her entire life.

Kent

--
If you have a bad cough, take a large dose of laxatives, then you will
be afraid to cough.

Bigbazza

2004-10-17 08:02:05 UTC

Post by Kent Wills
I heard a rumor that on Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:43:28 -0400, "Matthew"

Is that the one she added to some of your post yesterday ?..

Bigbazza(Barry)..Oz

Kent Wills

2004-10-17 10:07:29 UTC

I heard a rumor that on Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:02:05 +1000, "Bigbazza"

Post by Bigbazza
Is that the one she added to some of your post yesterday ?..

If you count add on's, then the number is something like seven.
Her sole post, should anyone care to read it can be found here:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20030214045340.29618.00000323%40mb-cd.wmconnect.com

Kent

--
If the grass if greener on the other side of the fence, the septic
tank probably has a leak.

Chuck

2004-10-16 19:07:47 UTC

Post by Doc Savage
Sorry about you being 'bombarded' with questions Kent. I'll take some
of the specifically technical questions if you wish.

I, for one, appreciate what you've done, and all the explanations for
this and that.
My ISP is Direcway. It does not provide newsgroups. I get a few
through other servers on OE. alt.friend and a couple of other
groups, I get from the German server, which, I'm sure you know, does
not provide binary groups. I think I'm just going to have to skip
this one, because life is too busy to worry over it at the moment and
I simply don't have time.

So you're still a Rabbi Doc?

Chuck

Doc Savage

2004-10-16 20:55:48 UTC

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 07:59:13 -0500, Doc Savage

Post by Doc Savage
Sorry about you being 'bombarded' with questions Kent. I'll take some
of the specifically technical questions if you wish.

I, for one, appreciate what you've done, and all the explanations for
this and that.
My ISP is Direcway. It does not provide newsgroups. I get a few
through other servers on OE. alt.friend and a couple of other
groups, I get from the German server, which, I'm sure you know, does
not provide binary groups. I think I'm just going to have to skip
this one, because life is too busy to worry over it at the moment and
I simply don't have time.

So you're still a Rabbi Doc?
Chuck

I'm still entitled to use that title, even though I'm no longer
permitted to perform any duties and I am no longer being paid.

Have you ever heard of Gene Boner or Steve Murphy?

Chuck

2004-10-17 00:28:53 UTC

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 07:59:13 -0500, Doc Savage

Post by Doc Savage
Sorry about you being 'bombarded' with questions Kent. I'll take

some

Post by Doc Savage
of the specifically technical questions if you wish.

I, for one, appreciate what you've done, and all the explanations

for

this and that.
My ISP is Direcway. It does not provide newsgroups. I get a few
through other servers on OE. alt.friend and a couple of other
groups, I get from the German server, which, I'm sure you know, does
not provide binary groups. I think I'm just going to have to skip
this one, because life is too busy to worry over it at the moment

and

I simply don't have time.

Hi,
I have lots of time these days. I'm a 'career student'and I'm also a
Rabbi with no duties. I do lecture and give public and Club talks in

Post by Doc Savage
senior subjects. I only 'work' about 20 hrs per week and study even
less, but I'm at an early stage (just finished week 1<grin>) in my new
subjects (OT Hebrew and Engineering Science) for my 9th and 10th
degrees.

So you're still a Rabbi Doc?
Chuck

I'm still entitled to use that title, even though I'm no longer
permitted to perform any duties and I am no longer being paid.
Have you ever heard of Gene Boner or Steve Murphy?

I was merely asking a question and you answered it.

I have no intention of bringing anything into this group of good
people.

Have a good day.

Chuck

Piper

2004-10-16 20:04:55 UTC

Post by Doc Savage
Sorry about you being 'bombarded' with questions Kent. I'll take some
of the specifically technical questions if you wish.

I, for one, appreciate what you've done, and all the explanations for
this and that.
My ISP is Direcway. It does not provide newsgroups. I get a few
through other servers on OE. alt.friend and a couple of other
groups, I get from the German server, which, I'm sure you know, does
not provide binary groups. I think I'm just going to have to skip
this one, because life is too busy to worry over it at the moment and
I simply don't have time.

Why no duties? I thought Rabbis were busy people.

Post by Doc Savage
I never mind giving advice or help when the request is sincere, and if I
don't have an answer or can't find one, I'm not too ashamed to admit it
and let somebody else fill the gaps in my knowledge. Knowledge is for
sharing, and usenet is for sharing knowledge, so the two go hand in hand
with my lifestyle.
There are binary servers out there which cost from as litle as $3.95 to
set up with no further fees (www.teranews.com) and some which cost from
$5 or $6 per month with up to 10Gb of downloads per month or around $15
to $30 for up to 250Gb per month. Most have no limits on the amount you
can upload (post) and some will even disguise your true details.
There's a helpful and comprehensive list with prices at
http://www.exit109.com/~jeremy/news/providers/providers.html
hint: scroll down 3/4ths of the page and look at the resellers list
under NNTPServer. Just be sure the reseller supports binary groups
and/or alt.* hierarchy groups. Not all of them do and I haven't checked
too closely.

I'm sorry, and thank you again, but I don't want it bad enough to pay
for it. :o)

-
Piper
Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed

Doc Savage

2004-10-16 22:36:17 UTC

Post by Doc Savage
I have lots of time these days. I'm a 'career student'and I'm also a
Rabbi with no duties. I do lecture and give public and Club talks in
my senior subjects. I only 'work' about 20 hrs per week and study
even less, but I'm at an early stage (just finished week 1<grin>) in
my new subjects (OT Hebrew and Engineering Science) for my 9th and
10th degrees.

Why no duties? I thought Rabbis were busy people.

It's a long story, but it will need to remain one of mystery and
intrigue for now, since I'm under instructions not to talk about it.
I'm sure one of the rumour-mongers will email you and give you all the
grizzly (and utterly heartwrenching) details before long. Just be sure
you have a large pinch of salt ready to sprinkle on the tittle-tattles
tail....

Piper

2004-10-16 23:24:50 UTC

Post by Doc Savage
It's a long story, but it will need to remain one of mystery and
intrigue for now, since I'm under instructions not to talk about it.
I'm sure one of the rumour-mongers will email you and give you all the
grizzly (and utterly heartwrenching) details before long. Just be sure
you have a large pinch of salt ready to sprinkle on the tittle-tattles
tail....

I don't listen to gossip. If I don't hear it from you, I won't hear
it. Usually, when I hear someone gossiping about someone else, I
wonder what they are saying about ME behind my back. Therefore, I try
not to be one of those people.

-
Piper
Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed

Kent Wills

2004-10-16 20:43:10 UTC

I heard a rumor that on Sat, 16 Oct 2004 07:59:13 -0500, Doc Savage

Post by Kent Wills
I heard a rumor that on Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:07:28 -0500, Piper

Post by Piper
Guess I'm the only one not able to use it then. :o(

I dunno. There *might* be a way... <eg>
Kent

Sorry about you being 'bombarded' with questions Kent. I'll take some
of the specifically technical questions if you wish.

No worries. Piper knows what I was writing about :)

Kent

--
Age and knowledge don't always come together. Sometimes you just get
the age...

Bianca

2004-10-19 00:56:48 UTC

I'm getting the newsgroup now and am seeing my posts, doesn't anyone else
have it yet? There was nothing there at all when I first posted to it.

Doc, I have a question.... should the charter be posted there? If yes, who
would be responsible for that or should one of us do it?

Thanks,
Bianca

Doc Savage

2004-10-19 03:10:13 UTC

Post by Bianca
I'm getting the newsgroup now and am seeing my posts, doesn't anyone
else have it yet? There was nothing there at all when I first posted
to it.
Doc, I have a question.... should the charter be posted there? If
yes, who would be responsible for that or should one of us do it?
Thanks,
Bianca

Giganews haven't added it yet, and my local newsfeed takes about 2 weeks
to add a group. My local newsfeed won't add this group (alt.friends) at
all, since there's no control message lodged with ISC.org. If mine
won't add it, then a number of others may also refuse, but I'm not
getting into regrouping and sending boosters again unless I'm asked to.
Too few people understand what I'm doing or why it needs to be done, and
it causes arguments.

The charter can be posted in the group or not, or on demand when
somebody asks for it, whichever the group feels is right. There's no
rule says it has to be posted at all.

At some stage, the charter should be posted on a 'free' website such as
Geocities or Yahoo!, and one or more regulars could put a link in their
signature file. That way it's readily available to the more experienced
lurker, and only needs a simple reply to tell newcomers how and where to
find it.

I didn't check the status of this group when I added the followups
'rule' - which used to be more or less the standard for binary groups.
Since most newsfeeds will probably carry the binary group on request but
they might refuse to carry this group, some people are going to find
that their followup messages to the binaries will bounce back with a
'group unknown' message. It's going to confuse the heck out of
newcomers who stumble into the binary group and don't have this one
<grin>

Bianca

2004-10-19 03:27:07 UTC

Giganews haven't added it yet, and my local newsfeed takes about 2 weeks
to add a group. My local newsfeed won't add this group (alt.friends) at
all, since there's no control message lodged with ISC.org. If mine
won't add it, then a number of others may also refuse, but I'm not
getting into regrouping and sending boosters again unless I'm asked to.
Too few people understand what I'm doing or why it needs to be done, and
it causes arguments.
The charter can be posted in the group or not, or on demand when
somebody asks for it, whichever the group feels is right. There's no
rule says it has to be posted at all.
At some stage, the charter should be posted on a 'free' website such as
Geocities or Yahoo!, and one or more regulars could put a link in their
signature file. That way it's readily available to the more experienced
lurker, and only needs a simple reply to tell newcomers how and where to
find it.
I didn't check the status of this group when I added the followups
'rule' - which used to be more or less the standard for binary groups.
Since most newsfeeds will probably carry the binary group on request but
they might refuse to carry this group, some people are going to find
that their followup messages to the binaries will bounce back with a
'group unknown' message. It's going to confuse the heck out of
newcomers who stumble into the binary group and don't have this one
<grin>

I'll be happy to post the charter to my website (I'll just create a blank
page for it). Can you give me a recommendation on how the signature
reference/link should read?

Maak

2004-11-08 18:39:32 UTC

Post by Doc Savage
alt.binaries.friends is not to be used as a chat group. Text messages
and responses to binary posts should be made to the text group. To
facilitate this, followups should be set to alt.friends. If you don't
know how to do this, ask somebody in the text group.

Something is a bit confusing here. Unless the Charter or FAQ for
alt.friends says that the two groups, AF and ABF, are sister groups and
goverened by the same FAQ for both groups, how can the posters to new
group, ABF, be forced to make replys to alt.friends? That would seem a
breech of netiquette for that to even be in the charter for
alt.binaries.friends. I would think that the posters of alt.friends would
have to approve that with a FAQ of their own. That being the case, where
would the replys be posted other than to the same group from where the
posts are originaly posted? Have they done that here? Is there a FAQ
here in alt.friends that is one and the same with the charter there? If
so, then what I am asking is moot, however, what is happening is the
first time I have ever encountered it. There is not even a precident for
it.

I would think that if you only want binaries in the alt.binaries.friends
group, that yet another group would be needed, alt.binaries.friends.d,
which is the normal way what you are wanting is accomplished. You have a
misplaced heirarchy in your name if alt.friends is to be the reply group.
That it had no binaries was long ago estabished when its control message
was made.

The problem that I am seeing is not everybody in friends agrees with the
new group, ABF. How can it's charter be the one where the charter is
dominant and governs both groups?

How can someone replying to a post in alt.binaries.friends be forced to
reply to a group that has no relationship with it other than the word
friends in it? How could a complaint in violation of the ABF charter be
pertinent to anything in regards to a reply directly within ABF?

I was here some years ago when Eugene Calame got me to come here. Even
Stinkweed was here as well back then because I once told her a joke and
she asked me where I got it and she came here, as well as
alt.misc.friends. Some of the people here still posting were here back
then too.

This is the first time I have ever seen any strife in this group? What is
going on?

By the way, I came here because you mentioned my name in one of your
posts. I was curious why it was mentioned. I read the posts and was
astounded at what was happening?

--
Jon Barry
Baton Rouge, La

Please request your server to carry:
alt.binaries.photos.portfolios

Doc Savage

2004-11-09 16:13:34 UTC